Dore Talk

Psyduck, Gimpy, and Podblack

Knowing your love and esteem for science and the facts, I'm totally surprised that you would hold such heresay as an ex-employee as worthy of any facts.  I'm waiting for the facts myself before spreading rumors and rubbish. 

Thanks for the update JOW - please could you post the location of the press release as soon as it's out, it would be useful to have 'official' information to point people towards? Also, since I'm getting quite a lot of blog hits asking about DORE NZ, please could you let people know whether NZ & other countries are or are not affected as part of DORE Australasia?

As I said, I'm not trying to 'gloat'. I completely agree that 'official' and more reliable information would be the best thing for everyone, but it simply hasn't been there. I've given all my sources so people can decide for themselves how reliable they are, and I've tried to keep info up-to-date - again, if there's more I can add from *any* source please suggest. FWIW, Gimpy, Podblack and myself have all had direct personal experience of SpLDs, & no-one could be happy about the obvious distress caused to staff and customers - don't think anyone could want things to happen in this way. Being upset about the news is fair enough, but shooting the messenger is unnecessary.

Right now there are a lot of people who don't seem to have any more information than a cancelled appointment, and they are asking for info. As more information becomes available, from DORE, (ex)-staff, (ex)-customers, or any other source I'm letting people know. There's also info that's not directly DORE's responsibility, but still likely to be helpful, such as what Podblack has posted on Australian law. Posting the administration documents gives some sort of timetable - people now know that more definite information will be available on Friday. (Ex-)staff have been posting unsolicited blog comments (and here) to share what they know - to me that says a lot about the commitment of those who work directly with customers, never something I've questioned.

Honestly, if someone else had been posting the exact same things I am, would this be a problem? 'Roosmum' started this thread by posting the only info available at the time - from Podblack & Gimpy. Please don't shoot the messenger.

FrazzleDazzle, I'm not sure what part of what's been posted is 'rubbish'. If you don't believe people who worked for DORE 'till they were sent home Friday to be reporting what happened to them accurately, fair enough. If you don't believe blogs, comments, and postings by parents who were obviously keen to start and continue the programme, fair enough. If you don't believe the administration documents, fair enough. If you don't believe what current DORE staff have posted, fair enough. I've sourced everything transparently as possible, so you can see as much as is out there, evaluate it, and come to your own conclusions. If what's there so far isn't enough to convince you that something is going on, or you think I've somehow manged to fake this for my own malicious purposes (!?) fair enough - not my interpretation but maybe you know something I don't or have a reason to weigh up the evidence differently. If that's the case, I'd urge you to share what else you know, and I'm sure everyone (myself included) will be very relieved if it turns out that there are no problems at all.

I'd encourage everyone to weigh up evidence for themselves. I agree that definitive information is somewhat too thin on the ground, though the legal administration documents are informative. Look at what's happening for yourself, and make up your own mind about what might be going on. I'll keep adding any sources I can find, and I'd urge others to do the same. I do think that people deserve to know what's out there to make up their mind on. Don't shoot the messenger.

Psyduck no one is shooting the messenger, your link is to someone who is suffering at the moment following the shock of it all and I am sure there has been and will be more, their worries and anger are genuine and understandable given the situation that has developed. They have every right to vent their feelings as it affects them personally and all of us who post regularly on this forum and are part of Dore would have a deep empathy for them as we are all a part of the situation.

We do not know at present the reasons why Dore Ausralia was forced to go into voluntary liquidation but I am sure the facts will unfold as they analyse the situation. The amount of firms who have gone under for as long as I can remember usually do so overnight and Dore is no different. How many of us if we were honest would fight to the bitter end to try to keep our dream afloat until there is no option.

We have a lot to find out yet concerning the situation so give it time, all I am saying is I do not want the forum used as a platform by some to play on peoples raw emotions. Empathy for their situation does help but recriminations will only make them feel worse. They need some positive feed back to help them through this. Once we know the details then we can see where we are going.

There has been positive information from you, gimpy and podblack which will be of help for those that want it and I thank you for that and carry on. But can we leave the post mortam of the situation till after we know the full facts and can look at it all with a clear head and full knowledge of the situation. Ellie XXX

 

 

Duck, I know as much as you do, not much of which is factual at this point. 

Still, I am really surprised at you, you have smugly jumped on these rumors and posted them all over the place.  The only information I could find on google searches yesterday was the rubbish you posted on all your blogs.  NO FACTS.  Oh lover of the facts YOU are.  Yes, I can guess something is going on, as I personally know mums in OZ who have been affected, but I won't post or come to ANY conclusions about anything I don't have the facts on here, thank you. 

Miss Ellie, thanks for that. I wouldn't have said that the links posted on the forum constitute a 'post-mortem', so much as trying to keep up with a rapidly evolving situation? In fairness I think that Gimpy, Podblack and myself have blogged sympathetically towards the staff & customers hit by this, I'm not sure how 'Regardless of my views on the Dore programme my sympathies are with customers of Dore Australia and those of their staff who were not aware of the apparent impending administration' (Gimpy) or 'I’ve worked in special needs and people like you are gems, even if I do have doubts about the methodology that is being used' (Podblack) could be interpreted otherwise. I've asked on here for info about DORE NZ, precisely because it's getting a lot of searches & the last thing I want is more panic-spreading. I honestly think that putting out all the information there is as soon as it's available will help.

FrazzleDazzle, I'm not sure that this is an appropriate thread to get into a discussion of how to evaluate information from different sources for different purposes. If you'd like to do so on another thread or an existing research thread, I'll happily join you elsewhere. I've posted 'facts' - facts are that there have been an increasing number of suggestions, from multiple sources, suggesting that something is going on. How you evaluate those is up to you. Literally hundreds of people are actively searching for this information, & what I've done is stick links up in one place so people can read and come to their own conclusions. If anything, that sort of access to multiple primary sources is likely to give people a better idea of the complexity and uncertainty of the situation and what the various rumours doing the rounds might be based on. I hope I've been reasonably tentative in what I've written & re-written as more information emerges, & have tried to avoid making unfounded assertions - just linked to anything I can find. If I've written anything that you think is baseless or wrong, please say so & I'm happy to discuss, clarify or edit it as appropriate. To be honest I'm disappointed that in the circumstances you feel a need to be personally antagonistic. I'm doing my level best to point people towards information that *they are looking for*. I think I've been honest and open about the sources and limits of that information, and everything I've said can be backed up with what you could have found at the time, too. I think people can make their own minds up, but they should be able to know what's out there.  I can't see how throwing insults around helps anyone. 'the rubbish you posted on all your blogs' - well, what was on mine at the time was mostly links, & they've been corroborated by later events. Please don't shoot the messenger. Again, if you really want to debate how to use different types of evidence, I do think that another thread would be more appropriate right now.

Clarification - Roosmum, being me, did indeed start the thread, but I posted links to the only information available at the time, I am not the person who posted the information contained in those links (Podblack and Gimpy).

 I am appreciative of all information, regardless, however I would love to hear from an official source. An 'offical' story I have received (with thanks), discusses "... voluntary administration.  This is a very important difference as the motive of the exercise is to evaluate different options for setting up a sustainable model for the delivery of the Dore Program going forward..."  This does not gel with the voluntary administration papers that have been publicly listed, (bit then I do not have a stroing understanding of company structure and business) that cover the numbers of company profit margins for the past years. The profit made by the company - and therefore, Dore hmself-  couteracts the claims that Dore funds each child individualy from his own pocket.

It's confusing to a lay person, and most parents who are concerned about this are of course, average Joe-on-the-street.  

I just want what's best for my child (like all parents here) and am confused, anxious and uncomfortable with the situation.

Psyduck, I'm not feeli'n the love.   

And I still don't think that posting insults is appropriate on this thread. Again, I'm happy to debate elsewhere, but I'll try & stick to linking to anything which might help shed light on the situation here. Thanks.

As long as you stick to the facts, we can play nice:

"facts are that there have been an increasing number of suggestions, from multiple sources, suggesting that something is going on."

 In other words, it is a fact that there are rumors and rubbish spreading.

"I'm doing my level best to point people towards information that *they are looking for*"

In other words, you are happy to be the head scaremonger and get the rumor mill going and keep it going......until the press release brings to light the official statements.  

 

Sorry, no matter how you look at it, that's not nice, there's no debate there.  I hope you sleep well.  Can I say that any less antagonistically?  

Shame on you, thanks.

 

 

I am an (ex?) staff member from Australia. I have been watching this with interest. The financial information posted by gimpy seems to have been posted as a favour to Australia clients as they are fully entitled to attend the meeting as creditors. As far as the comments go that this is not the place for this information to be posted. Where else? The information is not available on Dore Australia's website and unless you are aware which company are acting as administrators, you won't have access to it. I am hoping that this can be resolved, more for the clients sake than my own. I'm afraid I've lost trust in the company. But I hope that they find a way to continue helping all my wonderful clients.

Glenys, I have not seen the more recent unfoldings regarding the meetings, and like Roos, I'm not really savvy about business matters. Nobody appreciated speculations though, and the official statememts as they come to light is what we want, not the rumors. There is a big difference between liquidation and administration.

 I sincerely hope somehow it works out for all, and that the clients that have signed up and not completed are not left hanging.  It would be devastating moreso, physiologically, for those already underway.  I have faith that the right things will be done to keep them going somehow, and that thoe that need the help will receive it. And, that you will still have your rewarding employment.  I wish the best for you in all of this.  

FrazzleDazzle, I think the blame for what you regard as speculation is the fault of Dore.  When I was first contacted I was reluctant to post unsubstaniated claims, however I then saw thse claims replicated on this forum from a Dore client.  It was at that point that I decided to post on this on my blog.  This then caused a number of Dore customers and clients to comment here, on blogs and via email confirming the situation.  It took a further 24 hours for Dore to make a (brief) statement in which they provided no hint that wages would be paid and refunds made where appropriate.  Not only that but they did not publicise the documents which are essential reading for Dore creditors, including staff, either here or on their main website, it was left to bloggers, most of whom were not favourable to Dore to start with, to provide details.  Now these documents have apparently been taken offline, at least the link is not working for me this morning, so creditors will find it even more difficult to get information.  I intend to post my copies of this documents elsewhere on the internet later on today.  

I have every sympathy with those who could lose their jobs and with those who have invested considerable sums for treatment of their children regardless of my views of the Dore programme.  But rather than focus on podblack, psyduck or myself you should be asking questions of Dore.  How long have they known this could happen? What are they planning to do about it? What are the implications for Dore in the US, NZ and UK? 

Glenys, many thanks for that. Good luck on Friday.

FrazzleDazzle, those documents originally came to light on Monday morning thanks to Gimpy, and you could have seen them as Gimpy posted them previously on this thread & his blog.

I don't think I said before the official DORE statement came out that there was anything other than rumours, and I didn't post about them 'till I'd heard them from several independent, pro-DORE sources. But as posts on here and elsewhere show, people were looking for any information out there, having been left with nothing but cancelled appointments. I've never claimed to know more than what I've read nor with any more certainty than the sources I have justify.

I've been trying to put information *which will help people* up. Hence things like legal documents which might help ex-staff. That's hardly point-scoring. I've asked on here for clarification of the sort of things I'm getting worried blog hits about, in the hope that it will reassure worried customers. 

Now, will you please take the personal antagonism off what should be a thread to help those affected? I'll respond to further hostile posts from you on another thread if you'd prefer - not on here. Everyone else is actually trying to work together to help out.

 Creditor information is still up (pdfs from that link).

Psyduck, Gimpy and Podblack, you already have the links to your blogs on this site for anyone who is interested in reading them so there is no need for you to continue posting on this SUPPORT FORUM. We are not stupid we are able to follow links if we wish to. Psyduck, after previous experience of you on this forum , are we really supposed to believe you have our best interests at heart? I would prefer to wait for official statements on this matter so I can read the facts. Once again you are ruining this forum so please stick to your blogs and leave us in peace.

Debbie, other people (staff included) have said they appreciate the info. If you'd prefer to wait for something more official, that's probably very sensible. Gimpy has provided the *official* creditor's documents. However, hundreds of people a day are looking for whatever's out there.

I wouldn't have written *any* of what I have if I didn't care about people with SpLDs, and I can assure you I'm not studying EdPsych for fame or fortune! Whatever my disagreements with the research (NOT the people who use it - it's BECAUSE I care about them that I argue about the research) then I'm trying to help. Most of what I've posted is links to DORE staff & customers who are trying to put out any information they've got, & I'm trying to keep the links collected in one place. If you don't believe what they say, fair enough, but some of it has been corroborated by DORE staff who are presumably the same people you are waiting fro an official announcement from?

Agreed, Psyduck. Nothing we have done demonstrates 'ruining' anything, Debbie.

If there is 'ruining' of the DORE experience, I think you would be better describing how some of the staff now feel, actually, after another posted today on my blog. :( I'm glad that Brainduck in particular has given some proactive solutions for communication for staff, for example. Good luck to all on Friday, as already said.

 

 

If you are not ruining it Psyduck, how come it is a lovely supportive forum until you rear your ugly head. If you are all getting as many hits on your blogs as you say you are then I repeat, you do not need to post on here too. I have every faith in Wynford and Dore and I know that they will be working very hard behind the scenes to ensure the best possible outcome for everyone. I would like to send my very best wishes to Wynford and his team. Ignore the vultures Wynford, I know that you are doing all you can and that you have our childrens best interests at heart and I thank you for that. We musn't lose sight of the fact that the Dore programme is changing (and saving) lives.

I completely agree Debbie. Well said. Life-changing!