Dore Talk

Hi all

There appears to be no evidence in support of the DORE programme which is not testimonial-based. Is this correct? Did anyone have problems with this when they started?

Would anyone be willing to make contact with me outside of this forum (in order to prove that they are not a DORE staff member) to discuss their experiences with the programme?

Has anyone discovered an alternative programme? Presumably, if the DORE programme is effective, there would be at least one competitor by now.

What do people feel about the cost of the DORE programme?

 

There is non testimonial evidence in support of Dore, but it is whether or not you are able to accept that this research is was funded by Dore. The research was peer reviewed but there is much protest from their biggest critics the Dyslexia Action group.

I do not work for Dore and if you would like to view my blog at http://matthewstory.blogspot.com/ ,here it is. I do not know how to get you to accept that I am not a Dore employee short of saying I AM NOT!!

Many of us were drawn towards Dore by the total lack of success via phonological means, yes we need this teaching to help with reading/spelling, but there was no real help with any other Dyslexic problems. Schools are lacking resources and teachers are not properly trained at this point in time to teach our kids. I personally would be climbing the walls without Dore.

The cost is cheap compared to the years of tuition and desparation that was ahead of us. my son might still need some tuition but that will be short term.

Yes you can contact me through a PM.

An introduction to what you are hoping for out of any remedial programme would be nice and a perhaps a in sight into any learning difficulties you hoping to alleviate perhaps we help with suggestions. We don't bite honest!!

CLH Wrote:

"There appears to be no evidence in support of the DORE programme which is not testimonial-based. Is this correct?

No, that is not correct, as Lesley stated.  There is also much literature that you can find (check out the articles section here that Isabella most graciously contributed to) that will give you some information on the science of Dore.  If you would like more articles and information, please ask. 

Did anyone have problems with this when they started?

No, I did not, because I read the research.

Would anyone be willing to make contact with me outside of this forum (in order to prove that they are not a DORE staff member) to discuss their experiences with the programme?

If you are interested in talking with any of us, I am sure you would be free to ask any of us and we would be happy to share our experiences wtih the program with you, and you would find the same "testimony" outside of this forum as well.  Why do you want to contact outside of the forum?  Do you think that we all work for Dore?  You sound skeptical and a bit accusatory. 

Has anyone discovered an alternative programme? Presumably, if the DORE programme is effective, there would be at least one competitor by now.

There are many institutions and programs that offer exercise-based therapies, just do a search for them.  There are also many independent individuals working within the school systems and privately that help children with learning and behavioural issues.  Dore is as unique as each of these other programs and therapies.

What do people feel about the cost of the DORE programme?"

It was not a problem for me, the cost of the assessments, the time of the professionals who work with clients, and the use of the equimpent is fair compared to what you would pay for the same service at anymedical or rehab facility or program.

Also, compred to the cost of NOT doing the program is cheap compared to the cost of a child or an adult continuing on WITHOUT the tools that the Dore porgram provides for their futures.

I have seen your post CLH and wonder why you seem a little suspicious and would prefer to liase with people outside of this forum.

I can understand you wanting to find out as much as you can about Dore but do you have have to be so "clook and dagger" about it, We have nothing to hide and are not employees of Dore, just concerned parents or adults who were being let down by conventional LD educational strategies.

The price of Dore is nothing compared to what I was having to pay out for my daughters private tuition which was not effective anyway due to the cerebellum development delay. Can you put a price on a childs happiness, the ability to reach their full potential and to feel a part of normal society. I put my daughter through Dore as I will her brother Kieran, isn't that evidence enough that it does work.

There are many alternative programmes out there for children with learning difficulties, Why is there so much suspicion of Dore, is it because more than any of the others Dore is proving to be successful and does work which is not what some individuals want to hear.

For all the evidence from individuals who have been through Dore and have seen first hand the success in their children and themselves. We are voices in the wilderness as it is not our voices some quarters want to hear. It is the evidence of research which they can then pull apart to prove their own theories as correct.

So I wish you luck in your endeavours, but it is what you yourself feel deep down about Dore which will influence your decision on whether you believe the evidence or not. Unless you actually have any intention of trying it out yourself then you will never know!!!!

 Hi,

My son is undergoing the Dore programme, I am not a Dore employee, i am a customer though. The Dore centre have to pay their people and their rents and their equipment costs. The amount is not that great when you consider the amount of time over the whole program it will take.

The greatest cost by far is the investment in exercise time, both for the parent and the child, 10 mins in the morning and again in the evening EVERY day is tough.

However, I would do it again.

My son has been on programme 2 months, and he feels it is working. Not only that it is working, his handwriting is already better, his games teacher, who doesn't know hes on the programme has said how much better his football is. He can now keep up in class with his peers.

On the downside he has had some days where he has had a bad temper and short fuse. But we keep going and because of the changes so far he is really keen to keep going.

Just do it or regret it for ever, your children only have one childhood life is not a rehearsal so do your best when you can. 

Hi CLH,

I am a Dore member of staff, but I wouldn't be working for Dore if I didn't believe the programme worked. I went through the programme several years ago after struggling for most of my childhood with learning problems. I hated school and never thought that university was an option for me - I graduated this year with a 2.1, something I really didn't think possible before doing the Dore programme when I was 16.

I was very sceptical about the programme before I started it but i am so glad I but that aside. As Frazzel Dazzel has pointed out there is research into the effectiveness of the programme and the science behind it. This area will be an up hill struggle, but we are continuing to commission more research all the time. Have you read any of the research posted by Isabella? There is also a page on our website if you would like to have a look at that?                          You can find it at: http://www.dore.co.uk/Research/Default.aspx

Also you may be interested to know that we are featuring in a documentary on BBC One midlands tonight at 7.30  

We have been doing the Dore programme since January. My son has changed beyond all recognition. His speech, memory, organisation and general confidence has improved far more than usual maturity, and in his May tests, his results jumped to a level that was more than normal progress (teachers' words, not mine).  She also commented how he was very good at all PE sports and was very popular.  His tennis coach noticed a vast improvement over the summer break and he is a lot more involved in his football, rather than standing around looking at the trees like he used to I am a mother who only wants the best for her child and the school system and related support just isn't there for those kids that fall between the cracks.

Dore is worth every penny - I don't regret it one bit, and although the exercises are sometimes tough to do, my son can see his improvements.

CLH,

My daughter has been on the program just six months and already I am seeing things I never thought possible for her.

As for scientific evidence, I know there is some out there...... but it really does not matter to me. The testimonies of those whose  lives have been transformed was more proof than a whole pile of scientific papers for me.

I have used non-conventional treatments for many issues with myself and others in my family. I am amazed that there is a very non-invasive cure for allergies as well as infertility and very few people know about them. The reason for this is the lack of 'scientific evidence'. But the reason for the lack of scientific evidence is lack of scientific research. And the reason for the lack of research is there is no one behind the funding these studies. Without the money of big drug companies backing research, it cannot be done.

 Amy, I'm with you. Though the research is still new, and there is more coming, it's a slow process, no matter what the subject matter, to prove any one thing. Then, once something is "proven" there is a HUGE window of time before it becomes accepted as mainstream.  Those of us currently on the program are truly the pioneers of this kind of treatment. Then, you can look at the way the research was done, and oftentimes even proper research has it's problems in the end resulting in skewed interpretations.  So, with something like this, coming on board and hearing the real-life experiences means more than some attempt at replication in a petri dish for this kind of treatment. Most people do not think, as perhaps CLH does, that just because we post a good word that we are put up by Dore for it, and are not skeptical of the words of others sharing their experiences on the forums.  Any kind of rehab would be hard pressed to "prove" anyways, as there are so many variables to consider.  I do understand that Dore does track the progress of participants on a large scale, and I am sure those results over time will be released. Most fascinating is hearing the tracking progress of the adults, and hearing from an adults perspective on what it is like and the changes that are seen, and many are quite remarkable.

CLH, I have to ask why the sudden onset here and tone of your questions?  What is your motivation for asking us?  Are you considering the program, accusing us of working for Dore, trying to shame us for making the decision and spending the money? 

I think you raise some valid points CLH...(im not paid by Dore either...mores the pity)  prehaps with a little research you will discover that Wyynford Dore has answered you questions in his book  Dyslexia-the miracle cure? (worth a read by the way if none of you have read it) available from amazon or a Dore Centre. also check out the MYOMANCY site which is run by a guy called Chris Treganza, a former dyslexic, who underwent the Dore programme and changed his life...although he is pro-dore he also covers all aspects of accusations including in the area of research. Personally I think it pays to be sceptical, no one wants sheep, right?

Wynford Dore contributes SUBSTANTIAL amounts of money each MONTH to the Dore programme(from HIS personal funds) so that it can be delivered the way it is, he does not take a salary and the organization doesnt make a profit. (you do the math)

The cost is insignificant if your child (or anyone for that matter)is struggling and unhappy, my child was so miserable he asked me if I knew how to make him die..he was 7 ffs.....I was  a single mother (my youngest child has Aspergers Syndrome) when I put Jordan on the programme, it was a struggle and I went without for a while (big deal!)...I think 'most' mothers would agree that they would go without ANYTHING for their kids, though I did meet one who told me she couldnt afford Dore (despite the fact she was convinced her kid would benefit) because she had just spent £7000 on a holiday!!!! (WTF?? go to butlins for a week and help your goddamn kid!!!!!)

No matter how many testimonials or how much scientific research there is out there, there will always be people who want a quick, cheap fix and wont want to beleive that something SO SIMPLE as specific exercises can work......(once upon the time people thought the world was flat...how wrong were they???) if people dont/cant/ dont want to beleive it works thats fine, as long as they dont disadvantage another person with their unmoveable thoughts and ideas....

I didnt reasearch Dore throughly when I put Jordan on because I only found out about it through a friend whose son is was on the programme and they were seeing tremendous results from it. Best thing I ever did!! when jordan met Wynford Dore himself, he said to him "I ought to say Thank you to you, cos you saved my life"......That came from a nine year old....what better testamonial could you want????? 

 

 

Hello again everyone, and thanks for all the replies.  It’s encouraging to hear so many positive attitudes towards the programme, and also some negative ones. (Thanks Alan for mentioning your son’s bad temper and short fuse.) Has anyone else experienced any unusual side effects or does anyone have a negative impression of the programme? I’m not looking to rubbish the programme - I just want to see the other side of the coin, to make a more educated decision about whether or not to go ahead.  In answer to Lelly88’s question, what I’m hoping for out of the programme is mainly to deal with an inability to concentrate, but also poor coordination, poor posture and balance, and possibly a little social awkwardness. I was very interested to read upon discovering the Dore programme that all of these things could be linked to underdevelopment of the cerebellum. I do struggle to read and write sometimes, but I’ve never thought that I might be dyslexic. I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in the NHS to deal with these things, and so I’m open to considering alternative approaches. In fact, I have already been disappointed with several such approaches.  Miss Ellie thinks I might be a bit "cloak and dagger" in my post above. She’s got a point – I am very sceptical about the programme. I’ve spent more money on private medical treatment before, which I’m not concerned about, because there was much more certainty of success. I would be very reluctant to take part in the programme unless I felt sure there was a good chance of success, which, at the moment, I cannot be. After having read a lot about Dore, including “Dyslexia: The Miracle Cure”, I think that more questions have been raised than answered, particularly by the book itself, which left me with the impression that Wynford Dore is a savvy businessman who is marketing the programme well without supplying any substantial evidence to back it up. Having formed that impression, I would not be surprised if some of the posters on this forum turned out not to be bona fide clients. This is why I have a problem with the major evidence in support of the programme being testimonial.  

I’d appreciate your comments!

Hello CLH,

It is great to have you on here. It's wonderful to hear peoples' opinions and concerns about the programme. In response to your feeling of sceptisim - that is natural, as I said in my last post I was sceptical about the programme. It was mind bloggling really how I could be helped after having struggled throughout school, not getting the right help and consequently falling further and further behind children my own age - I am sure many other people feel the same. 

It is a shame you have the view you do of Wynford Dore, as the only reason that organisation was founded was because he was desperate to help his daughter Susie. Could I ask why you think the people on this forum are Dore Members of staff? Those that are Dore Staff is indicated in the post - I am a little confused about your previous comments... 

This forum to be set up so that we were able to offer additional support to those people going through the programme. contributors on the forum have a common ground as you can see people are beginning to support one another through the exercises and exchange similar stories as well as have the opportunity to ask us questions - which was the idea of the forum.

If there is anything that I can help you with please just ask

look forward to hearing from you

Rose    

I have the evidence that the programme works living with me right now!!  i have scans of his work before and after and also of his story and his school reports before and after. the child that couldnt write his name just got a 4c (yr6 grade) in his year 4 SATS!!! the highest mark out of the whole school year!! if you would like to have access to any of that information please contact jenny doyle at head office and she will be able to forward that on to you (obviously we dont exchange personnal details such as addresses on here for obvious reasons) do you belong to facebook? my profile on there also has vids of Jordan showing what he can do now. the others that post on here also have blogs if you would like to read them and you will see their own stories. I dont blog simply because i have the attention span of a bored newt and really cant be backsided to do so!!! lol (Dore anyone???)

Hi CLH,

You raise a valid concern with regards to trustworthiness and sincerity of posters. This is a common issue on any forum, but more so here on DoreTalk as it's run by Dore. Unfortunately it's also a problem without an obvious solution for us. For example, in your first post you ask:

CLH:

Would anyone be willing to make contact with me outside of this forum (in order to prove that they are not a DORE staff member) to discuss their experiences with the programme?

Even this simple request has its own issues:

1. Dore Staff - how does someone prove they are not a member of staff? For example, the only reason you know I am a staff member is because of my "Dore Staff" pip - without that, or if I registered a new account under a pseudonym, you could not tell.
2. Privacy - how do we allow people to contact one another while ensuring their privacy and safety? And how could they prove they were genuine happy clients?
3. Feasibility - is talking to one person enough? What about other people reading forums - how do they get the benefit?

And so on. Other solutions have similar issues, usually around proving sincerity. A suggestion I have seen elsewhere is to arrange visiting a centre, meeting the staff, and speaking to clients, but again this isn't necessarily feasible for the majority, still can't prove sincerity (for example, what if we've planted the "clients"?) and isn't a "quick" solution.

A number of parents maintain blogs of their child's progress through the programme. At what point do they change from being "something that Dore could be faking" to something you start to believe and have trust in? If they ever do?

Ensuring sincerity is always the key difficulty. And of course, there is the opposite problem - if someone is heavily negative of Dore, how can you be sure they are genuine?

This post doesn't really answer any of your questions (and probably asks many more) - sorry! However it's a problem some may not have considered or thought about.

With all that in mind, if there is anything we as staff can do or improve to help you (or anyone else considering going on the programme) in your decision, do please feel free to contact us and let us know.

At the end of the day nobody can make the decision for you, (even if it IS good value for money It still sounds expensive) I suppose its down to much your difficulties affect you in your everyday life. with me im scatty, disorganised, low attention span, uncoordinated, forgetful, scatty, disorgani...lol. It doesnt really affect me to the point of it being a problem, just some days im more divvy than others, so although I would love to do the programme myself, I know I cant justify the cost. However my son has aspergers syndrome, when he is old enough I will certainly FIND the money to put him on the programme as I do beleive it will help him. Also my nephew is showing many signs of CDD especially in the way of dyspraxia...and history is repeating itself in the school setting, again when he is old enough he will be assessed for the programme....the decision...is yours....lol

There is research that supports aspects of Dore's success. Whether you choose to beleive it really is up to you. It has generally been criticised on two fronts - it is viewed as biased because it is funded by Dore and because of the structure of the research, i.e. no double blind studies, small groups of participants, questionable definition of the problems etc. I got around my concerns by looking at neurological research on the cerebellum, research linking dyslexia and balance, and brain scan studies of dyslexic vs. non dyslexic children etc. A quick google search with any combination of these will lead you on quite a trail if you choose to follow it. What I found was enough to convince me that the THEORY upon which Dore is based has some merit, though there is no hard proof. If you are interested in following the progress of some who are doing the Dore program http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42113 is another good place to look. There are many pages of ongoing testimonials and trials to be found there. One warning, I think you willl find many of the moms are tired of being accused of being Dore employees as they are simply trying to do what is best for their children and have tried pretty much everything. You will also find reference there to other programs that are similar in nature to Dore but not as individualized, and have been around for a long time. As far as the price. I have been spending at least that much every year for the past three years just trying to keep my daughter afloat academically. If Dore does what it claims... then I will save that much for every year from now until she completes college AND have a far happier child. For me, it is worth the risk.

Eraina you are everything I am and like you I could cope with it until I undertook took my degree. Within a year of the course all my coping mechanisms had disappeared and I was left floundering. Even now nearly 8 months down the line I am still suffering from the after effects.

Like you Kieran has to be the priority he has his whole life ahead of him and I want him to have the same chance as his sister did through Dore to reach his full potential. It just means my degree will be on hold for a little longer. But at least I will know that I would have finally given both children a step up with the abiltiy to go for what ever they want out of life, my problems can wait.

Hi CLH,

You raise some very pertinent questions regarding the DORE programme, many of which we have all asked ourselves before making the decision to put our child (etc) or ourselves, onto what feels like, for most of us anyway, frankly, a very costly risk.  However, for us as parents it boiled down to this main question - whilst we probably couldnt really afford to, we felt that we definitely couldnt afford not to give our son the greatest opportunity to overcome the problems that he is facing.  We are half way through the first year, with no guarantees that all of his problems will be solved, however despite this uncertainty, we have seen enough improvements (including out of 5 CAT scores, getting three 3s and two 2As, which were excellent results in anyones book) to make it worthwhile.

In terms of testimonials and referrals etc we were actually informed about the DORE programme by our sons GP who, after discussing with him all the things we were going through with Benedict, and our overwhelming desire to help him overcome his co-ordination, concentration and emotional issues, actually recommended the programme as he had seen his dyspraxic niece gain so much by going through the DORE programme. 

If that isnt enough of a recommendation, from an NHS funded practioner, realising the limited approach offered by the health service that he is part of, then I dont know what is!!  "Miracle cure" may be overstating things, but its the only real option for us and there is no time to waste as far as we are concerned. 

I wish you all the best on your journey.

 CLH, Thank you for stating your case, and that you are truly just an individual that has questions. 

I want to try to assure you that many posters, as well as some of the admin here I have corresponded with both personally and on other forums for up to over 8 months or so.  If any of them were fake, there would be a good number of individuals spending an awful lot of time and creativity and trying to keep all their stories straight and in line with what they said months ago to still hold true, do you understand what I mean?  Also, what you may not know is that many Dore employees are graduates from the program or who have had family members graduate, and have seen firsthand the changes that this program makes, so it would not be fair to discount what a Dore employee would say, necessarily, they just want to see others have the same positive experiences they have seen and shared. 

The posters that I referred to, we have all been together for months now, through the thick and thin of not only Dore, but have become individuals I would call close friends and extended family, because there is no one locally to touch base with who understands the challenges of doing this program, and the stress it can create within the houshold and personally as the coaches of our children.  Also, this community has been a wonderful sounding board for ideas, and for sharing some of the seemingly simplest of our children's achievements whom only we can truly appreciate amongst ourselves.  

As the site admins have stated, this board was set up as a support forum for those going through the program, it has been a long time coming, and it's purpose and intent is clearly apparent in the many questions and sharing that you see happening here.  This board was not solely put up by Dore for the purose of promoting the program.

Please forgive us, an myself particularly, as I know that I have been accused in the past of being a fake poster and a ghostwriter for Dore, becuase I see the proof of what it does unfold in the testimonies of my friend's children and in my own child, and when you see a child who just used to struggle so, and no longer has the paramount of frustrations, when you fiind something that seems to help many individuals in the same way as your own child, you really cannot help but shout it from the rooftops.  So, I do immediately take offence at those kinds of accusations, yet understand the skepticism behind them.

I hope I have written something here that helps to sqelch your skepticism of what you read here from the posters, and that you find some information here helpful in your decision.